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PETITION for Freedom to Dance


onyourtoes Joined on 12 Feb 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Sunday, 28 June 2009 03:19 keggs goldfinger ****Advice, do not start anything if you cannot predict a positive outcome. Couldn't agree more ---- There has been a positive outcome. Many signatures were people who had never spoken out in support of freedom previously and this has influenced others in their views and intentions. However I reject your philosophy. To live in fear of failure and thus never act or speak or strive for change or improvement is not for me.
ettel_lima Joined on 22 Mar 2009 Total posts: 6	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Friday, 10 July 2009 13:37 By requesting World's dancer's suppport Freedom to Dance, and failing , big times, based on the pitiful results, in not having dancers respond, the petitioner unveiled the weakness and a serious lack of solidarity of dance community and people interested in dancesport, since anyone, not just dancers were asked to show their support. Those who have signed on have only expressed their support to wanting freedom to dance where they want, which does not mean that they are ready to go against, or take action against the authorities whose rules and regulations limit such freedom. The Petition has failed and trying to suggest that many of those who supported the petition had never spoken in support of freedom previously is simply wrong because you and no one else can possibly know what these people thought and what they spoke against before. Just because we see a few WDC icons signing we cannot conclude they have influenced anyone, they just placed their name where they would be expected to be ...all in a predictable way. Reading through the thread there were several posters who predicted the petition outcome and a failure . In fact this ill perceived Petition if taken at a face value, revealed weakness, dancers division and has become a proof of lack of interest to play politics , and also apathy to get involved. You may conclude a victory claiming dancers were afraid, scared to sign, but you must know that is just not true. I have also signed the petition and provided an e-mail, and guess what : I have already received unsolicited invitation to an USA held event. Since I hardly use the provided e-mail, and never for the purpose of dance, I wonder where the Organizers received the info to contact me. Boo ! I am sure the e-mails will be put to a better use than bother people who never intended to provide their e-mails, than the purpose of qualifying there whereabouts.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Feb 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Friday, 10 July 2009 15:33 ettel_lima The Petition has failed and trying to suggest that many of those who supported the petition had never spoken in support of freedom previously is simply wrong because you and no one else can possibly know what these people thought and what they spoke against before. Just because we see a few WDC icons signing we cannot conclude they have influenced anyone, they just placed their name where they would be expected to be ...all in a predictable way. ---- Shame you did not remember your own words in another post ettel_lima please try use less words, they have a tendency to get in the way when one is trying to read ---- I must really examine your words in this topic. First on what basis do you conclude the Petition failed ? Let me refresh memories. The opening words were In recent times, we have all seen several issues of trying to control where dancers compete and adjudicators judge. This has culminated in the action by the Italian IDSF Member Body to try to stop Junior & Juvenile competitors from competing in the Junior Blackpool Festival 2009. This petition is a simple one. It simply wants to show how many people disagree with the actions of those few and how many support the Freedom to Dance (or adjudicate) anywhere without political agendas and restrictions. The result showed how many people were prepared to put their name and e-mail address . That the number deserved to be higher does not mean "failure". Second Excuse Me but by what authority do you tell me I do not know what people thought or were saying before? These were people known intimately to me, people with whom I hold frequent conversations, people who had always previously refused to declare a political allegiance but now have reached the end of the tolerance road. For them to publicly sign was a huge step and certainly not predictable. These persons most certainly were not what you call "WDC Icons". You are also jumping to wild conclusions in deducing your e-mail address had been "used" by the WDC for ulterior purposes and I regret to say your claims cannot be taken seriously.
ettel_lima Joined on 22 Mar 2009 Total posts: 6	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Friday, 10 July 2009 21:32 You must be single. Answer: By the highest possible authority Onyoutoes. Putting a name down supporting 1+1=2 takes no courage , who would not wish support freedom ? This is where the problem lies. Not many people would waste time providing personal information claiming they are in favour, and support a petition that 1+1=2 Just because I like the idea of space travel does not mean I hate living down here on Earth. Just because I put my name down does not mean I hate anyone, am against anyone, my left signature means anything other than that I like freedom of choice . I would also like to be free to go through the red light at intersection when there is no traffic and other cars, yet I stop and wait for the green light. But wishing I could drive through never the less. May I politely suggest that if many, ten thousands and more had signed their names to the Petition, especially displaying support and names of prominent IDSF competitors and IDSF officials, that you would be speaking differently, coming to all sorts of wild conclusions. No ? I was very careful not to divulge my regular e-mail, instead had offered an old, hardly ever, and to the dancesport unknown e- mail address. What is the probability a WDC sanctioned Organizer's event would extend their nice-and it was nice indeed, invitation to this never used e-mail address ? Where do you think they got it from ? This is how I jump to wild conclusions. Not so wild if you let it sink in. I care very little how seriously you take my claim, this thread is about Petition for Freedom to Dance which just died after just a a few predictably signed , and a few more less predictable joined in probably just because they had nothing better to do, and I thank them. No need to argue, believe what you will, if you think it was a great idea to expose that majority of dancers and readers do not give a damn, so be it. I am sure WDC and also IDSF would interpret results to their own liking, yet the petition has nothing to do with either,l the way it was set up, and forgive me in stating that the result was less than overwhelming. Of you conclude that the majority were too intimidated and scared, afraid that IDSF would beat up on them, that is your prerogative, and the fact many dancers competing in IDSF events put their names down, unless someone else has done it without permission - another unexplored conspiracy theory - means they felt comfortable agreeing that breathing freely is their right, seeing no correlation with anything some may to see between lines. No need to emphasize the poor outcome any further, my conclusion is final, and so is probably yours, others may interpret results their way.
sambatogo Joined on 29 Aug 2007 Total posts: 280	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Saturday, 11 July 2009 00:54 Dear ettel-lima, Sambatogo guesses that what you mean is, that the proof is in the budding so to speak. If last years WDC World Championships were anything to go by. Then by the numbers participating, we will all have an answer. Also too the Non IDSF couples that competed and did well at Blackpool this year too could also be an indication of support for WDC. Sambatogo.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Feb 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Saturday, 11 July 2009 03:17 ettel_lima You must be single. ---- Why speculate and worry about the inconsequential and unrelated. You are of course entitled to your opinions as am I but they are only opinions. You have proven that many of your conclusions are inaccurate. No escaping though that there were some surprising names and of course there were many many supporters who this time did not sign but believe in the concept which prompted the Petition. No failure in that. Are you aware of Spy ware? You have e-mail addresses you go to any one of the many dance websites - think it through, let it sink in. Let me make very clear I am not suggesting dancesportinfo would be involved in any way and they are above approach in their Professionalism in my view.. I guess that since I and others I know who signed have not received invitation nice or otherwise we should feel rejected and unwanted BTW the completely unconnected to dance 1 + 1 = 2 thing together with the red light/green light thing have been done to death on this forum. Bit more originality and sticking with the topic needed.
ettel_lima Joined on 22 Mar 2009 Total posts: 6	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Sunday, 12 July 2009 12:10 Sambatogo how does your reply relate to this topic -Petition for Freedom ? The petition was structured around a question. Number of responders was very low. Someone has tried to conclude the reason for the low support was "fear", with a conclusion that IDSF is a scary and feared organization. Could the reason for a low support be apathy and disinterest to sign name under a meaningless Petition. Who knows, maybe the dancers and dance lovers who would normally sign were unaware of the petition, or just ignored it. It was either not properly advertised, or readers found it of no interest. If you set up a Petition for Breathing Clean Air, you may get some people sign, others, probably a majority would ignore it. Can you make a conclusion either way ? Whether signing it , or not , it does not mean and it is not indicative of the others' feeling and one cannot draw meaningful conclusions because of the so many variables and ambiguities. I cannot see what the good performance of Non- IDSF couples has to do with this petition, it goes without saying and everyone must come to a conclusion that dancers not affiliated with IDSF through their national body probably support someone else, a many probably cheer WDC. However I feel this was not about WDC, the petition was about the feeling of all readers and request to support the notion we prefer freedom. Please do not forget that it is the dancers affiliated with IDSF, whose presence in competitions other than IDSF's - be it Blackpool or something else, is worth our mention, not at all the dancers who have been, for one reason , or another, banned by IDSF and have no other option but to cooperate with the remaining organizations, probably belonging to one withing their geographical reach. Since WDC welcomes everyone and their competitions are apparently truly open, which I read and wish to believe, wouldn't size of 'their' events be expected to be larger than the events which are closed to just IDSF affiliates ? Non-IDSF and all willing IDSF affiliates enter and compete against each other - just like in the mentioned Blackpool. If Non-IDSF couples do well against IDSF couples they deserve to be congratulated, and the opposite is equally true. It is hardly the couples' choice that they were divided / separated, that they must take sides. Still no reason not to support the above Petition if they know about its existence, but if they chose to ignore it, it only speaks badly about those who set up and poorly promoted the petition. No one can conclude what the interest or disinterest of those aware of the petition for freedom means, perhaps they considered it a waste of effort.
dancer 007 Joined on 12 Apr 2007 Total posts: 83	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Friday, 17 July 2009 03:53 Ettel_Lima You signed the petition- good. I did not. Nonetheless, I agree with the sentiments within it- totally. I disagree with your interpretation that it was not "successful" and that it "failed". Over one thousand one hundred signatures in an open vote is not in any way a "failure", you may disagree with me, and that is your right. I may disagree with you also. I don't truly care if people claim intimidation or not- I re-state that I for example, never thought for one minute that over a thousand would openly sign. It's the old story- no-one cares about apathy ! Let's look at it the other way, shall we? The WDC Amateur World Championships in Paris was banned worldwide for 6 months and over 1300 entries competed- people voted with their feet ! And money! Many promoters of non-banned events would give their grandmothers to have over 1300 entries, and apparently the organisers mad a handsome profit. This says more than any petition regardless of interpretation, and I also beg to disagree with you that yes, it is indeed related to the topic. Hope you don't mind our differing on this, but the claim that they are completely unrelated is to most I suggest, simply not realistic. I know that if I were IDSF related, and I am not, ( nor WDC for that matter) I would be more than a little concerned. You may differ. That is your opinion and it's fine. If I forbid and I am ignored,.... I would worry.
openeyes Joined on 07 Jan 2009 Total posts: 28	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Sunday, 19 July 2009 06:15 ettel-lima if you needed this Petition to convince you there was apathy in DanceSport then I would say it was 100% a success. Over 1000 sounds pretty good to me. As for apathy just read this topic with comments like keggs goldfinger ****Advice, do not start anything if you cannot predict a positive outcome. Couldn't agree more ---- Sheesh!!!!
bulldog Joined on 22 Mar 2009 Total posts: 19	Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance Sunday, 19 July 2009 14:01 Open eyes !!! Suppose 1000 looks like a big number if one comes from a place with just one gas station. I have expected quite a few thousands, considering some comps boast having several thousand couples. If not apathy, would the word disinterest be more acceptable .... This petition sure fell on a deft ear. The less talked about it better, before the obviously attacked attacked IDSF uses the Petition`s results to suggest that their dancers, and the rest ( many ten thousands who belong to other associations, not to forget the dance fans who also ignored the Petition ) prefer discipline, rules, and do not suffer too much if they belong to an organization which sets rules, develops new standards and is not afraid to reinforce them. Clipping the feathers of the domesticated birds is sometimes a good thing. At least they do not try to pretend they are something they are not and do not waste energy by imitating other migrating birds. All that flapping of wings is simply waste of energy. It just ends up with lots of ruffled feathers, feathers in the air. What else has the Petition accomplished - hard to see anything positive., and I do not see WDC boasting about the results, the great numbers, even if a few fans cheered for every signature after the first 1000 were in a bag. At 2000 the petition ran out of the wind and enthusiasm. Than came all the justification and later praise for the dismal results, and now 1000 is claimed to be a good outcome ....Open eyes ! Face the truth ! Admit defeat ! Regroup, try something smarter.