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PETITION for Freedom to Dance

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longshot
Joined on 10 Mar 2009
Total posts: 12

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Sunday, 15 March 2009 14:48

Dear Geronimo,  is your IDSF vs.WDC   always   Black  vs. While,   Bad  vs. Good  type of  scenario ?

You appear clever, informed,  and  well organized in your writings:

 

  If there were 5  good things about IDSF what would they be, since no  organization is ever without a fault ?

  If there were 5 bad things about WDC, what would they be, since no organisation is good in everything ?

 

I have already expressed my opinion about the Petition fr freedom and am not at all surprised by the results,  even saw a supporter signed as  "Mickey Mouse" ,    later probably removed as I cannot find it any more to show to a friend.

How many supporters are there who sign under more than one name, how many , less than "brave",  have and will sign  under a false name,  because  they do not want their real name appear on the public list  ?

At the end the supporter's names will be found useful to someone. 

 
minime
Joined on 08 Jan 2009
Total posts: 84

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Sunday, 15 March 2009 16:06

Already 760  supporters  ?

The beauty lies in what   the numbers represnt ......

It takes two people ( for now, man and a women )  to compete, therefore  the true number  of Freedom to dance supporting couples ( to this day )  would likely  be   760 /  2= 380  . 

  Considering there were well over thousand  Amateur couples  in just one of the WDC  Amateur League comeptition ..380  is a rather low number. 

Maybe people are unaware, maybe the petition is not reaching far enough, may be the petition was not well thought out.  Lets wait and see. 

There are also errors starting to appear.  Taken in random order:

The Supporter # 215

215 alain millette 2009-03-10 19:48:22 City: (Unknown city)
Latitude:
Longitude:

is hardly an American. 

 Shouldn't  the Canadian flag be wrapped around the Supporter 125's   shoulders ? 

WDC  could certainly benefit from a greater show of support from Canada , after all,  hasn't the majority of Canadian Amateurs allegedly/  already  left the restrictive  CADA  ?

 Come on now, at least the amateur majority which has  left and reportably found a new freedom and support under CDDSC ,   are free now,  to register and  show their  support to  feedom to dance petition.   

Lets see more Canadian flags. Do report similar  serious   mistakes, do not salute  under flags of other countries. Stand on guard for  Canada, glorious and free. Stand and salute   under the flag bearing your Maple Leaf, not  Stars& Sripes. 

Be proud to be Canadians, act Canadian, sign under  your own flag.  Check your registrations, be responsile. That is the right thing to do.

 

 
GERONIMO
Joined on 20 May 2007
Total posts: 101

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Sunday, 15 March 2009 17:21

@ Keggs,
A definition of freedom of choice in general would be a book in itself, I suppose.
But if you allow me to restrict it (I don't like the word, but there you go..) to this issue:
- freedom to choose where to dance
- freedom to choose where to take lessons / give lessons
- freedom to choose where to work (judge)
- freedom to choose how to spend your money
- not hindered in this by any organisation that will punish you for your choice.
- especially not if you are not even a member of this organisation in legal sense.

@ Longshot,
No, far from that. Please read some of my other posts.
But I cannot help having a strong sense of good and bad. It must be my upbringing. Sorry for that, I know it interferes sometimes.
To conviene you:
Good about the IDSF:
1. Very good infra-structure.
2. Good internal communcation.
3. Regular press releases and good presentations of targets.
4. Very good system for collecting and spreading information about the comps. Compliments to Heinz Spaeker.
5. Strongly unified.

Bad about WDC:
1. Low infra-structure
2. Low internal communication (but improving to be honest).
3. Presentation of purposes could be better (is improving)
4. Diversity between executives and members
5. Internal animosity in the profession

But in the end I must say, and that is to explain to you why I might look a 'black & white' type to you.
Structures are there to do good things (at least that is what I feel).
Both organisations are there to render service to the dancing and dancers and all others involved.
From where I come the IDSF has turned the world upside down; to fulfill their targets the dancing suffers, the dancers suffer, events suffer and a lot of others suffer.
And even that I could excuse if I saw the need. But there isn't any. These same targets could be fulfilled without all this.
If strong structures, like the IDSF, are used by her officers in the wrong way, it makes it even worse for the whole of dancing.
IDSF should reconsider and ask herself what they have accomplished so far for the dancing and dancers with her new (and well-formulated) statement for the future.
There were 2 organisations of world-caliber: IDSF and WDC.
Now we have: IDSF, WDC, IDU, IDSA, IPDSC and maybe some others worldwide.
National organisations are disrupted and drawn into this war.
Individuals are punished and victimised.
Especially if you think (and I think you do) that IDSF is the "worlds'governing body and the sole responsible......", they should be wiser than letting this happen and even contribute to this situation.

@ All,
Some said that you should divide the numbers of the petition by 2, because couples would sign and 2 votes would be 1 couple only.
Reading the names I see:
- non-dancers
- judges
- coaches (some good names with it BTW)
- in most cases only 1 of the couple has signed in.
Maybe doubling it would make more sense?

Kindest regards,

Geronimo
keggs
Joined on 24 Dec 2005
Total posts: 406

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Sunday, 15 March 2009 17:44

What a breath of fresh air your post is Geronimo. Most if not all I concur with.

Congratulations.

Best wishes

Steve

 

 
longshot
Joined on 10 Mar 2009
Total posts: 12

Re: Agree Geronimo - technical difficulty- cannot praise you below this line ...just show 'smily ' ?

Sunday, 15 March 2009 23:07
longshot
Joined on 10 Mar 2009
Total posts: 12

Appreciate what you say Geronimo, am unable to post below

Sunday, 15 March 2009 23:08
manrico
Joined on 25 Mar 2007
Total posts: 20

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Sunday, 15 March 2009 23:13

the fact that exist two federations means there is automatically choice. choice to dance in idsf comps or choice to dance in wdc comps. same for judging, working, teaching etc.
minime
Joined on 08 Jan 2009
Total posts: 84

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Sunday, 15 March 2009 23:53

Appreciate what you wrote Geronimo, no wonder you have earned Jazz's respect.

One who sees negatives and positives from both point of views need be taken seriously.

Your comment regarding doubling the posts is correct if the signed names represent couples - do you detect slight back paddling ?  If you do you are right.

I  agree also with what you say about the misuse of authority and the responsibility of the strong players.

 
quicktime2
Joined on 31 Aug 2007
Total posts: 181

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Monday, 16 March 2009 01:16

Thanks Geronimo for changing the subject away from Canada. Ooops  I spoke to soon. I thought after her repetitious emails we could deal with the issues on the forum. But it was only to change to minime it seems. CDF is not involved and does not play a role in international affairs or policy decisions. On the other hand this is what I believe the Dance Politics Forum is about. Without being disrespectful there are many dance schools that have more members than the entire CDF organization. Why does Jazz and minime think that on a world forum we would want to constantly hear about CDF and Canada?  
quicktime2
Joined on 31 Aug 2007
Total posts: 181

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

Monday, 16 March 2009 02:44

Geronimo I agree with all you have said.  My view is:

 

1.         When we had (mainly) only WDC (Professional) and IDSF (Amateurs) it was a better

situation for all involved in ballroom dance competitions then the current fiasco we have to endure today.

 

2          It was the IDSF who unilaterally proclaimed that there must be only one organization in charge of dancesport – the IDSF.

 

The above to my mind is the crux of the problem.

 

3.         The IDSF – or at least the infamous 10th Anniversary Presidium – would have us believe this step (2 above) was necessary because they were recognized by the IOC as an International Federation for Danceport.

 

4.         I do not agree with this. I believe the above policy was initiated and encouraged by the 10th Anniversary Presidium to make IDSF completely in charge. Precisely their declared policy. On the website for all to read. This simply gave all the power to the individuals comprising the 10th Anniversary Presidium.

 

I believe most of us would accept 1, and 2 above as facts.

 

As far as 3 is concerned, the IDSF claim is absolutely false.  There is no doubt, that at least at the present time, the IOC does not disallow professionals to become part of the Olympic family but in fact strongly supports their inclusion. So much so that sports are virtually not allowed into the Olympic Games unless the professionals are included.

 

Although we spend a lot of our time discussing all the injustices and disgraceful behaviour by mainly IDSF supporters – and this must of course be brought out into the open - this will not solve the problem.

 

Solution?

a) WDC and IDSF continue the present path. With probably increased vigour. Who will win? The WDC because they have taken ( or perhaps more rightly blundered into taking)

the High Road – Open Market. If they pursue their present path they will probably also end up in the International Federation for Dancesport.

 

b.) WDC and IDSF make peace with both sharing equally.

 

What is so delicious to a WDC supporter, is that it is only through truly open championships that dancesport will have the slightest chance to ever be included as an Olympic Medal Sport. The irony is that it is the WDC who are championing open competitions while IDSF is totally opposed to open competitions !!

 

 

 
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