IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

   
Joined on 05 Aug 2005
Total posts: 288

IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Sunday, 02 August 2009 15:31

If IDSF abandons interest of  loyal and supporting IDSF athletes, if they betray and dilute Ballroom for the sake of creating an artificial fit with IOC's "recognized sport" requirements IDSF will  see their members fleeing to those who encourage participation in the traditional Ballroom - Latin and Standard .  It very well may be the WDC those loyal to IDSF shall run to.

IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Myself criticized for being a long time supporter, I have cheered   IDSF's for  enabling dancers to participate in well promoted, standardized, better structured, less expensive to attend, enter and view,  being judged by impartial, international quality adjudicators who I have perceived as fair and judging with little or no bias  I  see  an alarming  change in the IDSF's ways.  

I see IDSF in a self destruct mode because IDSF force upon their national members, the dance event organizers and onto their athletes rules , regulations and requirements which increase cost of participation, increases the risk of injury,  and places greater and extra obligation and liability upon everyone.

Initially IDSF provided needed service for ballroom dancers.  By introducing the term  "dancesport" and the sportive element of dance IDSF encouraged many undecided parents and young boys to take up dancing as something acceptable for young men.

However today IDSF, trying to meet IOC criteria, that all types of dance inclusive  wheelchair, hip-hop , rock & roll to name a few,  force their athletes, and the spectators who come to see ballroom  to share time and dance floor with  other type of dance styles.

In addition IDSF were forced to demand of their athletes and national members a strict compliance with IOC testing for use of prohibited chemical substances through standardized and random tests, which include provisions for introduction, maintenance and application and also for accurate record keeping  of  very costly urine testing and provision for  legal and disciplinary actions, defenses and challenges.

Olympic games run paralympics separately from the traditional Olympic games. 

Even if IDSF feel dancesport  feel they must include para-dancing/ wheelchair event,    why would IDSF want to encourage and insist that people  unable to walk, whether paraplegics, quadriplegics,  whether caused by a spinal injury or something else , need   to participate in everyday "dancesport" events ? Why not hold a special event, just like the Olympic Games do ?

The wheelchair bound people  

1.  are in a great minority in numbers and as such live distances apart

 2. are not able ( not majority ) to afford the high costs associated with dancesport - special wheelchairs, lessons,  private teachers, transportation to and from practices, events

3.  are in disadvantage when seeking a dance partner, whether able to walk/interested in this type of dancesport,  or also wheelchair bound with desired ability and freedom of movement etc.

4.  already have access to school gymnasiums and can participate in sports such as short. long distance competitions, basketball, slalom, obstacle course etc.

5.  have special needs:

a) require special access which DanceClubs, Dance Studios are not equipped for, such as ramps, elevators.

b) require special washrooms and change facilities - non-existent in majority of dance clubs and studios

c) cannot co-exist on dance floor with "regular" able to walk dancers because of space restrains  

d) some rely on  batteries operated  wheelchairs which are very heavy and can cause serious injury in case of collision, loss of control.

 

Please do not get me wrong,  this is not to criticize, look down upon, underestimate, or speak badly in any way about wheelchair bound persons,  simply to point out some difficulties they may encounter and also their dance teachers - dance studios- even organizers and the rest of the dancers who may be forced to purchase their own liability health insurance because it would be viewed as unfair  to insist that only wheelchairs bound dancers and their partners purchase these insurances in case they collide and hurt someone, on and off the dance floor, within the Organizers facility.

Disadvantage of including other ( if not all ) dancesport events are :

1.  Majority of spectators paying to see traditional ballroom are little if any interested in anything else than Ballroom, or  dancers they came to see competing, and may lose interest to attend if they see their Ballroom just a fraction of the time.

2.  Larger events take time, and unless the Organizers pay just a lip service and put just a short Hip Hop demo in place of "general dancing",  the event would stretch from a day to two or more placing a greater financial and "time" burden on dancers. their parents and coaches because they would have to book their hotels for longer time and take more time away from schools, work, because many dancers attend schools during the week, must study on weekends, or must work to make a living and save for their sport - dancesport. 

3. IOC recognizes athletes of the sport  and Amateur and Professional status is of no consequence , they want only the best to represent countries in their  Olympics.

IDSF has a problem,  they have Amateurs and Professionals,  and the Professionals often teach the Amateurs and are paid by the Amateurs to show them and teach them to dance. To me there is a conflict of interest if  the best Amateurs should one day be competing for price and recognition with someone who makes a living off them, and I'd question if the Professional is teaching me 100%  not leaving anything out, even misleading me, should he/she  the student could one day challenge them for / or in the Olympics. 

4. If all types of dance are included in " dancesport",  can IDSF be guaranteed that only Ballroom Dancesport will be considered by IOC for the inclusion in Olympics ?

Why not Hip-Hop ?  Another Forum members asked or hinted to this already.

Why not Hip-Hop ?  It is certainly cheaper and easier to train for hip-hop, the leaps and jumps and somersaults can be counted, height measured, it is danced by both sexes and if you have no partner,  you hip-hop solo .

5. The IDSF Directors and the licenced, current IDSF ballroom dance teaches cannot possibly be happy about inclusion of dance styles they themselves do not understand, know so little about.  Will their ranks and  executive positions be challenged by Hip-Hop Professional experts ? 

And the list of disadvantages goes on, perhaps you can think of some and discuss them.

Think of me  seldom  cries: " Wolf ! "    But this cry need be heard and reacted to before it is too late. And being too late may just be the best thing that can happen to our Ballroom dancers and Ballroom lovers.

Be careful what you wish for IDSF,  you have lost your  Focus,  you  let your athletes down, you have taken the  focus and recognition away off your athletes - the reason why they train so hard,  why they want to compete,  to meet the criteria imposed by IOC  to real Sports.

 

Be careful National members that your membership does not decrease.  Even Though you may work hard as volunteers, your members may start seeking refuge and recognition under a protection of another  Dance Organization which is  more focused on traditional DanceSport.

Such a  departure of the IDSF followers could happen independent of the undesired, unpopular restrictive bans,  and the introduction of the liability insurance will be the major step to the self destruction.

Can you imagine what consequence having a health insurance would be and the chaos and panic as soon as the first dancers would hold his/her  neck, eye,  as if  badly  hurt/poked  by another,  as soon as one would trip and fall,   contacts documented  on a  video camera ? What feast the lawyers would have exchanging and charging for their letters, meetings, filings, the insurance costs which would immediately skyrocket, perhaps inaccessible for more senior dancers for fear of injury, heart attack ?

 

PS.

I know this was a one long essay, but this is to tell you that this IDSF follower is aware of consequences which IDSF new direction could take their members and athletes, and should you allow that happen and you do not like the outcome do not say you did not know and

Think of me.  

 

 

 

Joined on 20 Jun 2008
Total posts: 27

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Monday, 03 August 2009 00:24

I agree with your post, and would like to add  'wheelchair bound'   cam also take part in competitive currling, and Murderball / Rugby.  Personally I never enjoy being viewed as some circus act, or admired for the ability to maneuver the wheelchair without hurting anyone and myself at high speeds, and no need to tell me that there are not many studios with accesibilty to wheelschars.  We do not force ourselves on anyone, I feel my money is as good as everyone else's but Iwe do not refuse an invitation to show that just because we are in a wheelchair we cannot do stuff.  Misunderstanding  may lie in  that some wheelchair dancers, or their club  may be financially  sponored  and the organizers receive  financial support for holding wheelchair event  but  do not tell anyone, dancesport asociations do not know about it,  and the associations may think  that  the  wheelchair dancing is finacially feasible and self sustaining. Wheelchair demos have an psychologival impact. Beside being motivating ( look what they can do type of thinking )  do not to underestimate the emmotiional impact and  guilt people may experience when they see wheelchair dancers. I feel more  comfortable when I know that I am wanted, I am not relaxed when I know I am  in a way , I feel comfortable in a company of people in similar situation, especially   when we share common interest, be it a wheelchair dancing.  Wheelchair dancing belongs in  Paralympic Games, no need forcing it in already very busy 'regular' dancesport events, exept for the accassional demo dance to bring attention to those affected by spinal injury. 

I know about  the challenges facing wheelchair dancers in North America and agree  with difficulties you describe.   Luckily wheelchair dancing has become quite a popular popular activity especially here in Sweden.It started as a part of a healing, recreational and rehabilitation activity. 

For general information:

Wheelchair Dancing originated in Sweden in 1968. Els-Britt Larsson, a wheelchair user herself who worked for the Swedish Handicap-Federation, was one of the pioneers of this fascinating sport. Very soon news of dancing in a wheelchair was spread and it became a very popular activity, especially in Sweden.

In 1975, the very first competition was organized in Västeras, Sweden, with a total of 30 couples taking part. Spectators were fascinated and inspired by the sport, and very soon competitions started to be organized all over the world. In 1977, the first international competition in Wheelchair Dance Sport took place in Sweden. After several regional and international competitions, the first World Championships were organized in Japan in 1998.
 
Wheelchair dance involves a dancer who uses a wheelchair and an able bodied dancer partnered together.  Dances performed include the waltz, tango, and cha-cha, as well as other well known dances.  Dancers work one-on-one with their partner.  They dance beside the wheelchair, assist with arm movements and help steer the chair. Partners participate in a training session to learn the basics like introductory moves, how to hold a dancer’s hands and wheelchair management. 
Wheelchair Squaredance involves performances to traditional folk square dances.

 I hope the discussions within IDSF,  that they may require IDSF dancers to buy liability insurance, was not started from  concerns about injuries  by wheelchair collisions.

 I agree IDSF is spreading themselves too thin, and if they chase  too many rabbits they may  end up  with none.

The International Olympic Committee (IOC)  launched the bid process July 31,09 for the Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in 2018 and I see no need for inclusion or dependance on IDSF evethouh every bit of promotion helps and is appreciated.

 

 

 

Joined on 07 Apr 2005
Total posts: 444

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Monday, 03 August 2009 13:48

 

Successful business need be customer oriented, not goal oriented.  

Attaining  of the goal is a reflection of  service, not the other way around.

 I know how time consuming, with little reward,  it is to put forth and argue one's point.

Jazz

 

 

Joined on 31 Aug 2007
Total posts: 181

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Monday, 03 August 2009 19:09

The previous two posts have been the first signs I have seen towards an unbiased rational discussion re dancesport. If you continue unforeseen oppotunities may arise!

Joined on 13 Nov 2008
Total posts: 46

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Monday, 03 August 2009 22:04

 

@think of me,

this liability insurance requirement is troubling. I thought  it was  the organizer's responsibility to obtain sufficient insurance, just as it is the responsibility if the venue owner to insure the venue. The Dancers carry own health insurance, and sign off under a statement they  agree they compete at own risk.  Mu kid competes in Karate,  far more a physical sport. All kids  and the parent know, if a kid loses a tooth it is no one else's fault, its the part of the sport, we just sign for jim a disclaimer, that's all.

IDSF is pushing their luck,  and I hear they even approved increase in their fees schedule.

Increase  during a Global deflation ? 

I would advise dancer  not to  participate if their accidental slip, or physical contact  and injuring someone could result in litigation,  and litigation it would result if sufficient insurance was required and  in existence. I know people who would sue just for being kicked by dancers practicing, swinging arms and legs  in some dark  hallway.

The saying goes,  if you give them enough rope they will hang themselves.  They just may, and WDC does not even lift a finger, all they need is play their usual dead.

 

 @quicktime2

my very words,  I just came from such an ugly place.  Indeed there are places in the Forum where people are reasonable and do not insult each other, try to out do one another and during the process lose the heart of the discussion.  In those places  you end up  wasting your time, and life. Why not stay here and say what you think about this topic,  not about me, not about him, about  the topic. It is sweet you like it here , I do too, sort of intelligent and civilized, hopefully no one barges in to spoil it. 

 

Joined on 04 Aug 2009
Total posts: 8

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Wednesday, 05 August 2009 00:01

Is it same as health insurance when you go abroad ?  Or is it injury insurance ?    Is this for all IDSF competitions ? How does it work ?  Who approved it ?  Where can I get more information ? When does it start ?

Sorry for so many questions.

Why doesn't IDSF get a group insurace and charge an extra Euro with each  admission. The individual insureance would cost so much more , and if  people started suing each other, some oissibly using it to subsidize their dance lesson, what a mess it could be.

Time to switch camps ?

 

Joined on 07 Mar 2009
Total posts: 13

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Wednesday, 05 August 2009 09:56

COME ON GUYS! HOW MUCH LONGER WILL YOU COMPLAIN FOR NO EFFECT.ANYWAY THE IDSF DOES WHATEVER THEY THINK IS 'BEST' FOR THIS SPORT. PEOPLE GET OWNED AND THEY DON'T LIKE IT. ALREADY CEASAR SAID: PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW WHEN THEY ARE CONQUERED! THAT IS THE SYSTEM THEY USE... LIKE IT OR NOT...

Joined on 19 Aug 2008
Total posts: 33

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Wednesday, 05 August 2009 14:14

Fascinating discussion.

Could this extra insurance  be extra protection  because IDSF recognized  Senior III level  and the extra liability caused by the added physical demand by increased duration of individual dances, especially of Jive and Viennese waltz ?  ( Senior III vs. Jive  ??) People dropping dead ? While dropping - and out of control possibly hurting another dancer, a judge, breaking a speaker ?

JohnnyCash I cannot read you.    Are you not being a wee little bit sarcastic ?  What is the meaning " people get owned' ?  Are you suggesting Amateur dancers were conquered  ( by IDSF ) ? That they should comply with any and all IDSF directives ?

I have a little bit more faith in our dancers, and my son would be amongst the first who would be advised NOT TO compete in any dance event where he, and his parents ( since he is too young to accept responsibility  )  could be subjected to prosecution and any legality for accidentally bumping or tripping somebody, how about an old rich Senior, huh ?

We need more information before jumping to conclusions, and find out how other competitors feel about the extra costs of such "luxuries".

 I completely agree that this urine testing thing is  unnecessary,  what will they think of next.  Will wheelchair dancers be required to use only special types of wheelchairs,  not to use "Ultra-Glide" as a lubricant ?

What's next ? This IDSF train may need new tracks.

 

 

Joined on 13 Feb 2009
Total posts: 19

Re: IDSF in a self-destruct mode ?

Thursday, 06 August 2009 00:17

 

 

 

Would the following  help ?

 2009 IDSF AGM in Macau  :

"Much discussion on the need for insurance for IDSF Athletes-

In future couples attending IDSF comps must be insured, and

that does not just mean travel insurance since that does not

cover you competing in a sporting event. It was suggested by

some members that a short term (1 week) insurance should be

offered for those attending only a couple of IDSF competitions

a year."

Nina