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Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents


rooftop Joined on 04 Aug 2009 Total posts: 8	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Monday, 26 October 2009 20:41 Please assure that your Professional members, especially those who act as Championship Scrutineers question (after individual dance results are tabulated) the obvious and large discrepancies in the markings awarded by your licensed adjudicators. Example being a judge who consistently marked dancers 4 to 5 placements higher, or lower from the final placement, disagreening with the majority. Obviously, such a judge uses other method, other standards to judge dancing. You may find that these discrepancies are well justifies, in which case something need be done with the majority markings. Upon examination you probably find the opposite. Has anyone questioned the judge during , and after the recent Ontario Open Championship 2009 , who consistently marked the eventual categories strngest dancers either last, or in the bottom of the Finals, while marking those who ended often in 5th and 6th position in the final as her 1 and 2 ? What was the motivation ? Many dancers and their parents expressed publicly their belief that the judge preferentially rewarded dancers not on their dance ( using the accustomed side by side comparison, ) but on the bases whether, or not the dancers, financially contributed to the judge's family's income as their dance students. Worth a review ? Right or wrong, using 9 adjudicators has reduced, if not completely eliminated the impact of such self-serving and unfair judging, and highlighted and brought such injustice and preferential treatment to the attention of anyone interested in analyzing the final score sheets.What is the function, and responsibility of a scrutineer ? We thank you OADA for being wise and forward looking, and lets hope CDF does what is right. After all, it is OADA which will ultimately suffer as less and less dancers may be interested in registering for what used to be the largest Ontario dancesport event, the prestigious Ontario Open Championships. Imagine the feelings of dancers who arrive from far away places, whether other provinces, USA or foreign countries if they are placed behind the presiding judge's family lower quality dance students, especially IF such marking would have an effect on their final placement. Would anyone in their position wish to support such an event ever again ? Would the paying spectators ? CDF, please help to contribute to the development of our dancesport, not to its demise, do not allow you members depart from your high standard and ethical/moral principals.
webminder Joined on 13 Nov 2008 Total posts: 46	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Tuesday, 27 October 2009 00:00 I am not a spokesperson for CDF, but in last two day have heard quite a bit about what you describe, and I thank you for not naming anyone, even though you made a little slip with a word "her" . The follow-up and investigation is up to CDF and I am sure there be also some officialy written letters of protest, something just whispered about.... Let me just mention another possible remedy, which is not my invention, something mentioned several months earlier : Adjudicators should be required to circle all entries which made a significant financial contribution to the adjudicator or his/her family in past lets, say 6 months, or indicate if the cuple took more than 2 private lessons in past 6 months. It is up to CDF to determine what the significant contribution is ( $ 500, 1000, 10000 ? ), or how many lessons in the past 6 months is significant. The circled number would make it easier for the scrutineer to zero in and to investigate odd markings, and it would likely deter the adjudicator from pushing abusing the authotity and damaging the contest for pesonal benefit or a show of a gratitude.
natasha2009 Joined on 27 Oct 2009 Total posts: 1	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Tuesday, 27 October 2009 13:41 Mother bear will always protect her cub. Its all about the instict, and if the rumour reflects the true situation, I suspect there was no malice. In my first post ever I do not condone such actions, however, the Important thing is that good dancers appear to have received the recognition they deserved, and if people discovered some irregularity, they can simply suggest to OADA that the judge is not used ever again. There is no comeptition with no eyebrows raised over something. Too bad the attendance was low.
elisedance Joined on 08 Oct 2007 Total posts: 2	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Tuesday, 27 October 2009 14:19 I know nothing of the above issues but I do want to put in a supportive word for the organizers of the competition. We were scheduled to compete in the first round in the evening - but my partner got stuck (due to a police - guns drawn, semi-automatics out) raid of a van on the approach road. When I told the organizers they were more than accomodating - they were exceptionally nice handling the situation kindly and fairly - and postponing the entire evenings events for 30 minutes. We are both very thankful for this treatment and truly felt valued and I did not even get nervous because of this added stress. I am sure that every competition has rumours of bias - and I am equally sure that it does occur because the judges are actually put in a very difficult position. They do not live off judging income alone (far from it) but off teaching income. Students take their lessons in order to win. That means, even for the most ethical individual, a judging pressure. Ideally judges should recuse themselves if their couples were on the floor - but in a small sports community that is usually not possible - in particular because some competitors take lessons from many coaches at the same time. For obvious reasons it would be absurd to exclude the most sought after (and often qualified) teachers as judges. However, I agree with the sentiment (if not the specific mechanism) suggested above - and that is openness. In my opinion, prior to a competition each judge should provide a confidential list to the adjucators of the couples that they have taught in the competition in, say, the preceding month. I think that is all that is necessary since this removes the secrecy from the current process and does not in the process insult the integrity of the judges who are, I believe, trying to be as fair as possible.
spectator100 Joined on 07 Jan 2009 Total posts: 32	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 28 October 2009 07:04 Based on the frequency with which Canadian Competitors are complaining about judges performance it would see that the country has a huge problem with their CADA/CDF events Whilst I am not in agreement with teachers over marking their own students it would seem that the Ontario Open Championships by and large ended up with the best dancers in the top positions. No real harm done with the exception that one person has damaged their reputation. The results that worry me are those where a particular result is REQUIRED. So lets say 7 adjudicators " you have 4 (the majority) who will mark to instruction/agreement. The other 3 can mark honestly on performance but play no part in the result. Under the "witch hunt " theory the honest 3 are then reported and punished because their marks do not conform with the "Majority" I am far more worried when I see results 1111111, 2222222, 3333333, 4444444, 5555555, 6666666 than if I see 1124211 2215122 3331455 4562346 5653534. 6446663 Finally it is NOT the scrutineers duty to point out discrepancies in placings. There are other areas where they must act , e.g. a number showing that did not compete, a number being marked twice in a semi final dance, a number being placed in 2 positions in one dance in the final. They cannot question a judges markings being at variance with another. For the most part they are hard at work with their computers uploading info and oblivious to the event. It is the responsibility of the Chairman to watch the compettion observe the judging and check all the markings on the scrutineers sheets BEFORE the result is announced. Having been an observer it would be the responsibility of the Chairman to question the markings and if necessary submit a report IF he/she believed that there was something seriously wrong and there was a miscarriage of justice.
smd Joined on 13 Feb 2009 Total posts: 21	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 28 October 2009 09:26 spectator100 has it right. It is the chairman's job to deal with this. Also to keep an eye on the scrutineers for errors: they do occur even/especially with the use of computer software!
rooftop Joined on 04 Aug 2009 Total posts: 8	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 28 October 2009 13:03 Thank you Spectato100 for clarifying and and answering my question: What is the responsibility of a scrutineer ? Yes, the scrutineer was busy... such as correcting inexperienced judge's markings of only 6 competitors in a final with 7 recalled.... In which case I must correct my address to the CDF and ask them to keep a better eye and to better educate those acting as competition Chairperson. If there is an increased number of CADA competitors commenting on judging, I attribute it to the improved dancesport knowledge, better understanding of rules, and also an increased awareness of dancers rights. This is all positive and worth encouragement, it does not mean CADA/CDF are in a nose dive. Lets be positive. There are good things happening in Canada, and CADA has quite a few very promising, World Class, young and not so young competitors.
sambatogo Joined on 29 Aug 2007 Total posts: 280	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 28 October 2009 17:34 rooftop, Unfortunately from the very start of the CDF organisation the words corruption, self serving and other similar words go together with the CDF. It cannot be separtated. That`s why it came to be in existance in the first place. Wishing for change in the CDF is simply not ever going to be a reality. CDF is probably more corrupt now than it has ever been. It is stronger now. Disease does spread you know. And their CDF USA friends supporting them. Sorry for the wake up call rooftop. Many top dance people around the world are very aware of this fact also. It is just many of the dancers in Canada that are kept in the dark. many never go outside North America to see. The CDF are aware of this bad reputation, and work very hard to try and hide any impropriety. But is always shows its ugly face as you describe in one form or another eventually. Unfortunately the great dance talent you talk of will allways be effected as a result of CDF and the corrupt people in it. And has and will continue to damage dancing greatly in Canada. Before there was CDF there was never such a big degree of problems as you in say your original posting. And Canada also had a relatively good international reputation. The problems now are BIGGER than ever before, everyone can see it. A sad scenario yes, but the truth has to be said by someone. And has already been seen by so many as exampled by your own testimony, and no doubt many others too. Watch rooftop as Think of me and other CDF excecutive leap to the CDF defence. This will be interesting too see, but sambatogo will make no further comment. The facts speak for them selves, as you rooftop have pointed out but a small example. But lets all try and be positive anyway shall we?
jazz Joined on 07 Apr 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 28 October 2009 20:17 Jazz is ready to hit the rooftop when she reads sambatogo's words. No, do not misunderstand rooftop, not you. You have quite correctly addressed and asked the right association ( CDF ) to investigate, to look into, to correct possible wrong doings, and you have also correctly, and I thank you, pointed out that CDF mentions in their policies and regulations they try to act in a moral and ethical manner. Jazz is hitting the roof top ( no, not you ) when she sees how your words are manipulated and twisted, your comments taken out of context with no contribution to the topic, with the aim to attack, and to say something very unkind about CDF. What could be the reason for needling Think of me, and CFD unless Sambatogo invites retaliation ? Was it not yours very truly, the blond, who was called names in the past, and accused ( unjustly ) of being a spokes-poster for CDF ? As for the suggestion that before CDF everything was just hunky-dorri in Canada: " whose actions and whose lack of compliance and cooperation with the professional dancesport majority and whose single handed stubbornness led to the dissolution of the "once-upon-a-time " mighty CDDSC with the majority forming the present CDF, the same CDF which immediately agreed and signed a pact of cooperation with CADA ?" Oh, sambatogo, could I tell you long stories, but you probably heard them all , may have even written some . Jazz believes CDF will accept, will consider and will act on any and all reasonable recommendations especially when accompanied with proof of wrongdoing, such as yours rooftop.
sambatogo Joined on 29 Aug 2007 Total posts: 280	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 28 October 2009 22:29 I know sambatogo said there would be no reply. But we must ask, Jazz did you hurt your head when you hit the roof? We hope not. But good to hear from you anyway. Sambatogo.