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Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents


rooftop Joined on 04 Aug 2009 Total posts: 8	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Tuesday, 03 November 2009 20:31 I am so sorry judi_cator for causing you not 1, not 2 but a whole lot of disappointment. Please get over it. It was you who suggested the beast of the thing was something we all must live with. No we do not. It is you who tries to justify and gives unrelated examples to our OOC . It is you who without intimate knowledge of the undeniable facts only generalize. With the dancers help I brought a real problem, real situation to the attention of the only authority who can make a difference , not at all concerned with their purity, how white they are, or if they, or, any of their members, or leaders have ever sinned. That is unimportant. Even a judge who drinks and drives is able to make a correct judgment and suggest corrective action over a drunk driver who runs over , injures, even kills someone while under the influence.... I disagree with your logic which can only serve as an excuse and a justification for judges to continue to openly and blatantly misuse their authority and indeed the privilege afforded to them by the organizer when asked to adjudicate impartially. In this case the dancers marked well below the placement they deserved ( and where by a majority vote they deservedly ended up ) have nothing to learn from such faulty judging . They were clearly better, not in their own minds, but in the minds of all present, the spectators, fellow dancers, even in the minds of the dancers who were quite surprised to learn, after the competition, that they were actually placed higher than they could imagine and wish for . ( By who ? By a judge related to their dance teacher ? ) You may never know whether the direct contact you suggested was made. An a good suggestion it was. But , this is an open forum which I believe dancers read, and the dancers should know that injustice which they observed and suffered at OOC ( never mind if it is a beast of the thing, or if other injustices take place elsewhere ) has not gone unnoticed and that the supreme authority was challenged to look into it. This is not a witch hunt, unless you want to insult and call people names, but a simple request for identification and correction of a correctable problem for the benefit of our sport if such problem has taken place. Who knows, perhaps all the spectators reading the score sheets and shaking their heads in disbelief , the fans and the dancers who were marked unfairly higher and lower, and the majority judges they all could be wrong. Just the nature of the beast, ain't it ?
reasonable Joined on 06 Aug 2009 Total posts: 3	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Thursday, 05 November 2009 21:32 Interesting that no one has pointed out that the competing couples ( who according to the comments I read here, were used by some as if stepping stones,) had to dish out CAD $ 135 for the privilege to compete and entertain. Isn't $ 65/couple rather an expensive entry providing the competitors had to also purchase all day spectators ticket ? The cheapest ticket at $ 35 per person. Don't the Organizers know that the couples competing in the evening, and late at night do not stay at the premises during the day ? Why not give dancers a break and introduce evening competitors ticket only , even better, why not skip the spectators ticket all together ? Is this not done in many countries, is it not the IDSF way ? Cannot afford it ? Don't have it or scale it down, do it in a local gym, or ask the adjudicators do it for free. Were Maple Leaf judges paid ? Why stick it to the dancers ? How is this related to the topic ? Is it not all about serving and providing the best for your customer = the competitor, who pays lots of moneys ( especially since the participation in OOC is made almost compulsory) , hoping and anticipating a great experience, just to be reminded there are still a few who will take advantage of their position as a judge to mistreat them. Never mind of such action had no effect in the end. Look at it from the dancer's point of view after they review their score sheets. A pleasant surprise ? If you want more customers, if you want customers to return and tell their friend what a grand event it was this OCC, and to join, and not miss it the next year....you cannot afford to allow anyone to hurt dancer's feelings. For the moneys it costs they may just decide it is not a worthwhile and rewarding experience, certainly not worth $ 135, plus transportation, plus Hotel accommodation +++ Besides, was there not another sporting event just the following week in Toronto ? Can dancers be expected to travel to Toronto Open competitions which are spaced just 7 days apart ? Are the organizers working together for benefit of dancesport , or, are they trying to put one another out of business ? Do they not realize they would have more registrations if they held events farther apart ? It is OADA which books the venue a year in advance, what do the organizers of the other event think, or do they ? Hold on, let me ask CDF another question: CDF can you please hold your Maple Leaf Championships a few weeks apart from the already scheduled OOC ?
Rugby Joined on 05 Mar 2008 Total posts: 9	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Friday, 06 November 2009 03:58 I don't think the organizers had a choice. Trying to find a location and a time is harder than you think. The previous location for the Maple Leaf was no longer doable and in the search for a new location picking an ideal date is not always possible. I don't think they were really wanting to be so close to the Ontario Open but you have to take what you can.
judi_cator Joined on 09 Dec 2008 Total posts: 89	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Tuesday, 10 November 2009 23:51 rooftop, You may never know whether the direct contact you suggested was made. An a good suggestion it was. But , this is an open forum which I believe dancers read, and the dancers should know that injustice which they observed and suffered at OOC ( never mind if it is a beast of the thing, or if other injustices take place elsewhere ) has not gone unnoticed and that the supreme authority was challenged to look into it. This is not a witch hunt, unless you want to insult and call people names, but a simple request for identification and correction of a correctable problem for the benefit of our sport if such problem has taken place. Who knows, perhaps all the spectators reading the score sheets and shaking their heads in disbelief , the fans and the dancers who were marked unfairly higher and lower, and the majority judges they all could be wrong. Just the nature of the beast, ain't it ? ---- Rooftop You are correct this is an open forum but you do a great injustice to other competitors if you believe that your drawing attention to your own grievances has opened peoples eyes. Over and over you will hear dancers complain, and sometimes it is perfectly justifiable. Every competitor will have a horror story to tell over judging. The nature of the beast is however you will always get variations in markings. This will never change and most dancers know and accept the situation. I wonder if you noticed that at the IDSF World Latin Championship one judge marked the winners 6th in every dance. They were employed to do a job and marked as they saw the final. I have no doubt that as they marked they were aware that in some areas it would cause an outcry and they would become the villain. When a judge makes their marks if they can honestly say that is their fair opinion then that should be accepted. Judges who have accepted money for their markings is a different issue entirely and yes that has happened, just as Adjudicators have been threatened with dire consequences if they do not mark a certain way. Variations in markings are a vital part of our dance world and may that never change. I regret that I am not sure of your intention when writing about "insults" and calling people "names" but it seems strange considering some of your earlier words and accusations which I believe fit that description and particularly when you say you have given broad hints so that the person can be identified, without being named, by those who were present. You are completely correct that I will never know if you did in fact submit a private formal complaint with full supporting evidence. With great respect I must the say if, as you imply, you have done so I for one find it somewhat out of order for you to then go public with your allegations without waiting for an investigation and appropriate action or at least some formal response. To quote your own words it might be best if you were simply "to get over it" iín the final count the nature of the beast is that a majority decision will prevail and that is the most relevant and important point.. To conclude, you are completely correct I am not aware of the intimate details of the event thus I have deliberately therefore written in very general terms As you say it is an open forum and therefore people can try to explain , even to those who have no desire to read, that variations in markings will never be eliminated and that is wonderful and to the benefit of all. .
judi_cator Joined on 09 Dec 2008 Total posts: 89	Re: Ontario Open Championships 2009 - Message to Canadian CDF from OADA dancers and their parents Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:07 Rooftop I ask you please to consider carefully the words which follow. As before you are correct this is an Open Forum, it is a world wide forum and tread by many people who are not aware of the various Canadian judges and their personal circumstances. As an outcome of your posting interested parties will go to the Ontario Amateur Association website and look for the results. They will see the names of several lady adjudicators. By this very topic you have placed a question mark against the names and reputations of each of these ladies who are now suspected of some wrong doing by dancers in other countries. I do not think this is fair to any of the lady adjudicators at the event. I do not believe it to be comstructive and I do not consider it helpful to the reputation of dancesport in Canada. This is only my opinion but I so wish you had tackled what you percieved to be a problem in an entirely different way.